damn it’s been a long week
samanddeanandcasarelove asked: Oh, trust me I understand, I may ship Wincest and Sastiel and a slew of other ships, but do I think they are canon? No, not at all, and it annoys me to hear someone say the ships I ship are canon. Why? Because it invalidates and alienates big parts of the fandom. Do I want my ships to become canon? Nope, for exactly that same reason. My view, ship what you want, just don't bash people over the head with your ship, and try and say it's canon when it isn't.
See, now this? This I agree with. 100% agreement. Shoving ships down people’s throats, no matter what they are, and saying they’re canon when they’re not is not okay, not cool and just a dick move, basically. And no, I don’t want my ships to become canon on SPN, for a number of reasons - the biggest one being that I don’t think the show would do a good job of actually making any ‘big’ same-sex ship canon. The show tends to treat both shippers and the ships themselves as huge jokes - look what they did to Becky whenever she was on screen, or Damian and Barnes, the Sam and Dean cosplayers; their entire relationship was a Wincest joke, which is insulting to both LGBT viewers that they’re relegated to a punchline and Wincest shippers in that the show thinks you’re an ass if you ship them.
The show basically treats any potential ships as a joke and sees the fandom as silly for even shipping it in the first place - I don’t trust them with anything even remotely approaching accurate LGBT+ representation.
And there’s the rub, too - none of the major fanon ships on the show are canon, so neither can they be ‘out of character’ for anyone, either. I’ve seen arguments that a certain ship would be ‘out of character’ for these characters, and that’s utter bullshit, because to be OOC, something has to be canon first.
Saying something like ‘oh, Dean would never be a bottom, it’s out of character!’ is false and wrong on so many levels, because unless it’s ever canonically stated that Dean is 1) in a sexual relationship with a man/Sam/Cas/whoever and 2) is always, always the top in said relationship, then it’s not OOC. Something can only be OOC if it directly contradicts what we know from the canon, and because the show has never said that, yes, Dean is in a sexual relationship with X and definitely prefers Y sexual position, it cannot be OOC. Until it is stated in canon, with no room for interpretation, that it is a certain way - until that happens, it’s all speculation, all in character, all possible and all okay. And hell, even if it WAS canon that Dean was a top, it’s totally okay to want otherwise and prefer otherwise!
And don’t even get me started on the ship-shaming/kink-shaming that those ideas bring about.
Why are Sam and Dean NEVER happy? It’s not just because people died and keep on dying because of and for them. It’s not just the harsh upbringing and the lifestyle of hunters.
It’s because they’re not allowed to have anyone else for some inexplicable reason. God hates them. Fate hates them. The world fucking hates them. Supernatural has hated them since day 1, because it’s done nothing but take every single one away from them, and so much worse in S7.
Sam and Dean are the beggars of the show. They’re tired and hungry and thirsty but they keep going, because they have to stay alive for each other. This all leads to burnout.
We’ve seen Dean get close, when he told Bobby he would strap Sam in the Impala and drive off a cliff. That’s burnout. Life sucks. It’s never going to get better. Why bother to keep going when everyone else, every single one who’s given a fuck for Winchester blood, never stayed?
They have each other. That’s all that matters. Really? Is it?
THIS IS WHAT I MEAN, if you love the boys so much, why don’t you want them to be happy, why don’t you want them to have friends, why do you want them to have nothing but each other?, that’s not romantic, it’s not healthy, and it’s BAD FOR THEM, they won’t be happy without each other no, but that doesn’t mean they have to be the be-all and end-all, you should want them to have cas and bobby, you should want sam to find someone like sarah blake again, you should want them to be able to build functional lives that don’t revolve around each other, it doesn’t mean they don’t love and need each other any less, it just means they can have other people in their lives, and be HAPPY, IF YOU LOVE THEM LET THEM BE HAPPY (via)
okay i’m just going to enter the sea of wank for a second but i have literally never seen a fandom so phobic about having more than two characters present.
can you really think of any tv show that has only two characters and is able to survive eight seasons? supporting characters, guest stars, all of these add to the overall narrative and help make it so that the interaction between the two leads isn’t stagnant - moreover, they provide a chance for the protagonists to grow and reveal different sides of themselves - ultimately making them more interesting to watch.
castle and beckett have ryan and esposito
sherlock and john have mrs. hudson and lestrade
buffy had xander and willow and giles and etc etc
why can’t sam and dean have castiel and jody and so on?
having them around doesn’t make it so that the story isn’t about sam and dean-
it makes it so that the story of sam and dean evolves.
Twitter or why fandom wank about Sam and Dean leads to SPN writers not knowing about their own fandom
So I’ve been going on twitter and just checking Jim Michael’s twitter history and I was slightly annoyed by the entitlement of some people (particularly supporters of the Silent Majority), their incredible disrespect.
Here are some fine examples that were tweeted after Citizen Fang
@TheJimMichaels Hey, your new show last night was interesting, didn’t recognize those two douchebag brother dudes, are they new characters
@TheJimMichaels Sorry but I don’t agree and am not alone. S8 destroyed Ss character and undermined bro bond. 8.09 made me weep for lost show
@TheJimMichaels I totally disagree. So fucking tired of the brothers fighting and not trusting each other. I WANT THE BROMANCE BACK! ASAP!
Jim Michaels just keeps retweeting fan tweets fr: TNT fans obviously. People who haven’t been through this shit long enuf to expect better.
I believe in respectful dialogue between TPTB and fandom and while I agree that everybody can express their frustrations with the way Sam and Dean act this season, there are ways to express that without resulting to “threatening” cast and crew members to leave the show or calling what the writers are doing character assassination.
Not to mention that most of these tweets also come from people who do not believe in the importance of minor characters in the show and act like they understand Sam and Dean’s headspace better than Carver does.
What I’d like to do is kinda important. It’s Christmas break and Carver and Co. are currently working on the second part of season 8, maybe even adjusting things according to fan reaction.
What I want to show is that
- We believe that Sam and Dean need to have this conflict out in the open in order to grow and become strong characters in their own right
- Castiel is still extremely important and we want him in more episodes
- We appreciate Sam and Dean as individual characters who have wishes of their own, characters and relationships that matter to them outside of each other
- We also like Dean and Sam as brothers and believe that they will overcome their conflict
Basically we still think Carver is doing a great job in character development and want to show him our support for his vision of Sam and Dean as individuals.
So if you want to engage in respectful dialogue, tweet to
A simple “merry christmas and can’t wait for season gr8”. Or “can’t wait for Dean’s/Sam’s individual storyline and myth arc”. “Can’t wait for more Castiel and more Dean/Castiel scenes”.
It’s enough and shows that we encourage and point out our wishes for the show in a respecful manner :) It also shows that this fandom cannot be reduced to people who do nothing but complain and whine after every episode.
Simply leave a tweet over Christmas break and it will give the cast/crew an impression how people feel about this season.
I’m so tired of this kind of “fans”.
GO AND TWEET JIM LOVE!!! LOVE ABOUT DEAN, SAM, CAS, BENNY, AMELIA, AND SEASON GR8 IN GENERAL!!!!
There are only two people in the world who know what it is to grow up in a 1967 Impala, to know that the most important thing in your father’s life is to find the monster that killed your mother, to be raised as a soldier, to check the salt lines every night before bed, to know the fear and the isolation, to cling to your brother like he is the only constant in your world because he is. And no one can replace him because no one else knows — not a woman, not an angel, no one.
And that is one of the deep flaws in the show, that most non-Winchester characters are treated merely as plot devices. It’s simply a feature of bad writing to not give supporting characters inner lives of their own.
And I contend that it would have been far easier to reboot the series after season five if the hunting world in Supernatural was a fully fleshed-out, self-sustaining world of its own that existed as more than just a flat-painted backdrop for the Winchester’s quest. If Sam and Dean had meaningful relationships with a number of characters then I think it would have been easier to have a plot that was truly relevant to them, instead of just throwing shit at Sam for him to deal with, and then having everything turning out to be about Castiel.
The idea that everyone who’s not Sam and Dean is rightfully just a cardboard cut-out prop for their angsting is taken as such a given. And it’s actually pretty gross and invalidating. If you’re not who the story’s about, you’re treated as a full person, with agency and an inner life, you don’t matter. (Moreover, if you’re not a white cis het dudebro represented by the heroes of the story, you don’t matter - representation is important).
And it’s also why I think there’s so much resentment directed at Castiel, because he’s the one character that’s not just a plot device, who gets his own storylines and substantial character development, who wasn’t killed off after six episodes.
I’m not saying that the Winchesters shouldn’t be the clear protagonists, or that people can’t watch for just the brothers. But that doesn’t mean that every other character has to be treated like a mere plot device. That notion is a shitty one, and, I think, pretty toxic to the fandom in general.